Carlos Sanchez with DevOpsSpeakeasy at DevoxxMA 2022

we are doing a speakeasy interview here

at devox Morocco this is the devops

Speakeasy where we talk about all kinds

of topics around devops and we like to

get our speakers here from devox Morocco

to give us a little bit information

about themselves and tell us what their

what they do what they’re interested in

and just have a casual conversation so

we’re here today with Carlos Sanchez

and would you like to introduce yourself

tell everyone a little bit about who you

are where you come from I come from

Spain and I’m here to give a couple of

sessions about the stuff we’re working

on I work at Adobe

um Adobe experience manager is a Content

management system

so we do a lot of stuff with kubernetes

and that’s pretty much what my talks are

going to be about Java Java and

kubernetes

so I’m Melissa McKay I’m a Java champion

and a Docker captain and I’m super

curious in the talk that you have

scheduled tell us a little bit about

what you’re going to be teaching us so

there’s one talk is going to be about

how we move a Java application to

kubernetes and the lessons we learn like

what to do our well what did not work

well what what mistakes we made so other

people don’t make the same mistakes what

things did how we improve the situation

and so on

and the other one is resource

optimization on kubernetes especially

for Java applications so it’s a subset

of that talk that is gonna go into more

detail on

oh totally makes sense I’m super

interested I get asked this question a

lot especially as a Java developer does

it make sense to put Java in the cloud

and I’ve done some talks on how to

containerize Java applications

um what is your opinion on that subject

um I think we’re going to the direction

of everything is going to be running on

kubernetes later

well who says everything is 80 or

something

um so

kubernetes is becoming this API standard

that everybody’s using to move workloads

to the cloud so

there’s a lot of java applications out

there that will benefit from from using

kubernetes

and uh is making it a lot of people

would say oh I just I just have a simple

application or it’s a small thing or not

but

while it makes sense for you not to run

kubernetes

more and more Cloud providers are giving

you easy ways to run kubernetes

workloads

so I think we’re moving into the other

direction yeah I agree with you I think

you’re right um kubernetes is a lot for

a developer to learn from scratch and

start at the beginning but there are a

lot of tools out there now that are

improving that process and we’re getting

better and better at this

well is this your did you you have more

to okay is this your first time here no

it’s my second time the first time was

in 2019 before covet

so I guess it’s two editions in a row

yes this is this is really cool this is

my first time here and um apparently

they move the venue every time we’re

here in agadir right now so where were

you when you came for the first time

but in the main city so here we are more

on the takasu area which is nicer I

guess

on the beach cool

well anything else you would like to

share about your time here yeah so about

the talks

um

you mentioned something that uh I made

me think

it’s a lot for a Java developer to have

to learn all these kubernetes stuff

right but if you look back uh I mean

when you run a Java application on bare

metal in the past or a VM there’s a lot

of things that need to be considered

right you need to consider oh it’s my

I’m selling the right amount of memory

I’m selling the rent amount of the the

CPU house is going to use what is the

garbage collector on doing what’s the is

my CPU getting throttle all these things

so

we’re not we have to learn something new

but it at the end is uh

moving something that we already had to

learn anyway right so today’s

how is how our CPU is being used on

kubernetes how is memory being used in

managing kubernetes uh it’s learning new

things right but it’s not that different

that what we had to do before for for

job applications right so that’s a

really good point and this reminds me of

you know wrapping Java applications in

containers before they were really

supported like being able to control

your memory usage and stuff like that

now I mean that’s been fixed as we’re

getting better and better at that of

course but you make a good point that

it’s easy as a developer sometimes we

might forget that we are still

responsible for understanding the load

that and all of the requests that are

being asked of our application to

understand how it’s going to be used and

to deploy it in production sometimes it

makes a difference on how you design it

in the beginning so very important topic

for devops in general

yeah so what exactly do you do for Adobe

so we run the Adobe experience manager

which is the product that is a Content

management system

and when I joined we were moving we

started moving to the cloud so we’d run

now for a few years the cloud service so

before it was a product that people

could use in on-premise or money service

on VMS and so on now it’s a Java product

basically mostly

and customers can come to us and just

buy it as a service

and we manage everything else for them

so we run kubernetes clusters we have

over 30 clusters in the around the world

because it’s a

delivery people want to have it close to

where their customers are low latency so

we care a lot about this sort of stuff

and we provide them with

all the uptime that they need and we

solve the issues for them so it was an

application or a product that was

running out on premise I mean requires a

lot of expertise because it was already

distributed even before kubernetes and

so on you could run multiple replicas

and you had to because if you have a

site with a lot of traffic you need to

run a lot of replicas now we do all that

in the cloud through kubernetes as a one

of the implementation details that

customers don’t really need to know

about but that’s what we use to to

manage the cloud service awesome you

have a lot of experience in this area I

can see how this is inspiring for your

talk that you’re going to be giving yeah

it makes a lot of sense

well I’m looking forward to it

um

I have lots of questions and lots to

learn still even with my own experience

with Java I also have a lot of questions

we can all benefit right there’s always

something new to learn that’s what I

love about this industry in general

if there is one piece of advice that you

would like to give anyone who’s

attempting to move a Java application

into a kubernetes infrastructure what

would it be

um I have to say just one advice I guess

my advice would be not to run kubernetes

just use a cloud provider kubernetes or

somebody else running kubernetes for you

um

but it’s very easy I think

it’s very easy one advantage that

kubernetes has over previous attempts of

doing similar things is very easy to do

the lift and shift right your existing

job applications you can easily run into

kubernetes

obviously you can tune it you can

improve it you can work on it

but it’s very easy to just move it and

but just moving it you have a lot of

benefits like

automatic restarts automatic if if a

node goes down automatically moving

things to another now all these things

that kubernetes gives you for free so

it’s a good way to not having to deal

with individual virtual machines or

individual

um yeah I don’t know bare metal machines

or things like that it gives you a

us

on one hand is complicated to use or

complicated to implement or deploy but

on the other hand it’s very easy to do

things that everybody expects nowadays

like zero downtime or zero down time

upgrades right stuff like that comes

with kubernetes for free pretty much

yeah so I think that’s a really good

piece of advice to make sure that um

you’re considering the cost of doing it

and the effort it’s going to take I’ve

definitely been in situations where

we’ve had you know an internal team

responsible for internal kubernetes

cluster and it’s a lot of work yes it is

you

you can

it’s getting better but yeah

yep all right well this was great to

meet you

to cross paths again at this conference

and definitely look forward to your talk

later on are there any resources or

anything that you would like to point

our audience to

I’m going to put the slides up

[Music]

I guess I don’t know if they’re

recording it but maze lights are always

available in my in my blog on my website

so great all right well you have it

Carlos Sanchez talking to us about

moving Java applications to kubernetes

and a great person to know and meet here

in devox Morocco thank you thank you

very much